Everyday Ham Podcast: Amateur Radio Conversations
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Everyday Ham Podcast: Amateur Radio Conversations
Flex Radio's new 200 Dollar SmartSDR Subscription, is this the Future of Ham Radio Software?
FlexRadio just announced SmartSDR Plus subscriptions starting at $199/year. Time for an impromptu Saturday morning coffee chat! Join James (K8JKU), Jim (N8JRD), and Rory (W8KNX) as we discuss what this means for ham radio and share our honest opinions.
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The Everyday Ham Podcast is hosted by James Mills (K8JKU), Jim Davis (N8JRD), and Rory Locke (W8KNX) – three friends who dive into the world of amateur radio with a casual, lighthearted twist.
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Good evening. Good morning. It's the Everyday Ham, and we're doing a little bit of something different here today. We've all got our coffee. It is Saturday morning at 10 o'clock in the morning, which is earlier than I like to be up, I'm not going to lie. But we thought we'd get together and do a little coffee chat this morning because the Flex Radio folks made a fairly significant announcement this week related to how they're licensing their software moving forward. And so what I wanted to do was kind of sit down and James and Rory and I talked about this a little bit beforehand and talk about what that new licensing model looks like, how it's going to impact those Flex Radio users, and decide whether or not we think it's a good idea or not. So before I get into it, a couple of folks with me today, James Mills, K-H-J-K-U, Rory Locke, W8KNX, and myself, Jim NHJRD, Jim Davis, if you care. So let's get right into it, guys. Flex Radio this week announced their new subscription service for their radios. And subscription service is a bit of a um, I'm not going to call it a misnomer, but it's an interesting way to describe what they're calling a new licensing model. So we'll dive into it a little bit further, but the flo the the brass tacks of this is they have two levels. Uh you'll be able to spend$199 annually, so once a year, uh, and you'll have access to the new Smart SDR Plus service, uh, which will give you the most recent version of their Smart SDR software. And if you're interested in being a sort of early adopter of all things Flex Radio, you can go up to their$299 tier, which is the Smart SDR Plus early access tier. And that'll give you access to features as they're being developed, as they're being tested, and that'll let you see some of the new things that are coming out on the platform before they go to full production. So it's a really interesting model, and I want to get uh kind of some of your initial blushes on it. But what we'll what we'll say right out loud before we get too far into this is if you are subscribed to Smart SDR, uh you're you're gonna get access to all of these features, whatever they bring to us uh in the next year. Uh but if you're not subscribed, you're still gonna have access to their latest major version release, which is actually what makes this a little bit interesting for those folks that aren't willing to shell out the money. So I don't know what you guys have looked at yet, but I'll be curious what your first blush is on smart SDR going to a subscription service.
SPEAKER_02:If it's got a plus in the name, then it's gotta be a benefit, right? That that's how that works now in the naming conventions.
SPEAKER_00:Rory, do you have any? I think it's so much just like everything else we're seeing in every every software model at this point. Whether, you know, a lot of us deal at work, yeah, Jim, it's what you kind of do for a living. I am on the purchasing and management side of it. James, I know, interfaces with with certain amount of technology at work too. Um, we're seeing this more and more. And I know from a from a work standpoint, it's something that we now have to budget for is things that were used to be a one-time purchase have become subscription-based or um software as a service type thing, or whatever you want to call it. So it's it's kind of um I see it two ways. One, I think if I owned a flex and I truly was interested in it, I think I would probably be okay with it. I would probably annoy me, but I would probably subscribe and just deal with it because it's what I want to have in my shack. But I also know that I would be annoyed with another thing that's gonna cost me money with another, another, you know, any sort of frequency, whether it's annually or monthly or whatever. But if it also means that it's going to stabilize their business model and make them more sustainable going forward and give them some more cash flow to do better things, we'll hope that's where it's going. We'll hope it's not just a stagnant, the plus doesn't show up and that's the only improvement that they make. There we go. We we I hope that they actually have, and you may have looked into this, Jim, you have to let us know. I hope there's some solid plans of where they're taking this and what their ideas are. If they're actually going to improve it and keep the business model going, it doesn't hurt my feelings too bad.
SPEAKER_01:So I I do have a question on the was it$200 a month model?$199 is the uh the base model, and then$299 a year is the early access model. And it gives you early access.
SPEAKER_02:So are you paying money to be a beta tester or are they giving you flushed out technology at that point as well? Because as Rory said, a lot of companies do this because RD is expensive to continuously develop software is very expensive. So you know you're trying to create some recurring income to have that cycle in. But am I paying to be the privilege of a beta tester? And I guess that is going to be part of the question.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, you're asking the question that many of the flex radio enthusiasts on Facebook in their group are asking as well, which is to say, uh, does paying the extra hundred dollars just make me a beta tester for Flex? And I think it's a fair question to be honest with you. Because the the answer is you are getting pre-release access to some of these features in the way that they're describing it right now. Um, this is still a very fresh change for Flex, so it will really remain to be seen how they execute in the first year and the transition from um what is a perpetual license software model or uh you know a an occasional upgrade model. Flex has only twice in the past uh charged for upgrades from major versions, right? From uh two to three, for example, uh major version release. They charged old radio users uh a fee to upgrade. But it is it is a very fair question. And the answer is uh I think that you kind of are at the$290, uh$299 tier. But uh the cool thing about that is you do get to help shape some of that development if they're actually open to hearing feedback, which we at this point believe that they should be uh if you're in that kind of uh test group.
SPEAKER_02:I would hope if I'm paying some money to pay to play there, that they would be listening to my feedback on how the technology is evolving. I I also question if this goes against sort of the ham ethos, if you will. Uh, hams are are kind of notoriously frugal, not calling anyone out here. I'm also a ham. Hams are cheap. Hams are cheap. And we we like to build our own. And and I know the flex technology has always been a radio system, and I can honestly say I'm not a flex user, so don't come at me. I understand that I maybe don't understand what I'm talking about exactly. Um but flex has always kind of gone and it's more of a premium product. You're you're paying for technology, you're paying for the SDR experience and the remote experience. But does this kind of go against everything that is ham? I mean, you're now paying for a software license, and I guess the the question is the other thing Hams have always kind of and I'm interested in the chat if anyone feels this way. We radios have always had a long lead development cycle. They develop them, they put them out, they put a lot of RD into them, and then they have a long life cycle, multiple years, decades even. If you look at the 7300, for example, does this help accelerate shorter development cycles? Are we gonna get newer radio technology quicker? Therefore, Hams will be more happy, or are we just spending money to spend money and this won't work?
SPEAKER_00:I wonder if they're going to continue to focus on on the hardware as much as the software too. You know, what what where does that land? I I wonder what their long-term plans are for su uh for hardware development. Um I know on on Jim's Flex that uh we'll go full transparency on has been moved along from the shack with interesting timing. I don't know if Jim had insider information. I know he did not. I'm I shouldn't even I shouldn't even speculate. I know he did not. It was just a uh a timing thing there. Um and I I hear the neighbors are out with their dogs because of course why wouldn't you do that while I'm trying to record a podcast?
SPEAKER_02:I mean it is it is beautiful outside though.
SPEAKER_00:You can't okay. So I I that made me lose my train of thought, which is great. But I hope they're with playing with Jim's Flex, the hardware, the hardware side of it. I I learned to enjoy the software side of it. The hardware side of it, though, I think had some work to do. At least on the version you had, the receiver wasn't what I would expect it to have been, and a couple other minor things. So I hope they're gonna continue to spend uh development time on on both sides with this with this subscription model.
SPEAKER_01:Well, there's a couple of things you guys asked there that I think we should clarify, and and I encourage anybody that's actually uh impacted by this flex change, which uh if you own a flex radio, essentially you will be impacted in some way. And of course, you could continue to run Smart SDR 31010, which is where I ended up uh with the last major release, was uh was on my radio, and that'll be perpetually available to you. But two things to say here. If you decide not to buy into the the smart SDR plus uh subscription model, what Flex is promising is that you get a smart SDR version that is the next major release, so they're not gonna leave you stuck back on version three, for example. You're gonna get version four, which is the next planned major release, uh, but you won't get any of the new features that are developed in version four. So you'll get all of the core functionality of your radio that came from three version three, but you won't get any of those new fancy features. What you'll see is essentially uh like buying a car with a lower trim spec, you see all those blank buttons uh in the dashboard, right? You're gonna see that same thing in Smart SDR. Those those buttons will be grayed out for you. You won't have access to them.
SPEAKER_02:And is it gonna pop up with ads that you can hit this button if you upgrade now? Because we're gonna be a training experience.
SPEAKER_01:They make a comment that there is a tool tip that suggests that you subscribe when you hover over the button. But I don't know what that looks like yet, and I'm not sure that that vision is fully executed. So we'll we'll find out what the how intrusive the the subscription part of that reminder is. Uh, but for me, that's one of the things that would stand out as a bit of a concern, right? When we go to subscription software, we don't it it there is a benefit to the company, of course, to encourage you to go subscription. I work in a uh in a business where we recently did uh transition into subscription, and obviously there's huge recurring revenue benefits uh for many reasons that we've touched on in brief here already today. So yeah, you'll you will get uh if you're not a subscriber, version four. And the other cool thing that Flex is doing.
SPEAKER_02:So you're getting security up, not to interrupt you, Jim, but you're getting security updates is basically what they're gonna give you in the latest version. They're gonna tease you with new features and you're getting security updates, which is good.
SPEAKER_01:But you get core radio fun core radio functionality, you won't lose anything that you have right now, right? And you get bug fixes. Bug fixes and security updates so that the platform stays secure, which I can appreciate that, right? Instead of having folks hanging out back on old versions because they refuse to upgrade, you give them the base model and you let them let them operate. So, yeah, you're gonna get smart smart SDR version four, uh, even if you don't subscribe, but you're gonna have the advantage of seeing these new features. Now, I want to go back to something that Rory asked, which I think was an extremely fair ask and something that Flex has yet to prove to us, which is show us a roadmap if you are going to start charging a significant or a premium fee. And$200, and I understand there's a lot of Flex Radio folks that are well to do and have money. And I've I've seen folks uh in the Flex Radio Enthusiast group defending this move, saying, well, 200 bucks is, you know, just like your cable bill for the year, or just, you know, and comparing it to other things that they consider to be menial.$200 to one ham is a little bit different than$200 to another ham. It really depends on your financial situation. And if you're a flex user now, uh it could feel a little bit, you know, like, yeah, you're pushing it under the rug calling$200 an inexpensive subscription. It depends on the the user. So all that being said, the roadmap, back to the roadmap here, has not been revealed for what we will see in premium. And I do think that if you are moving to this platform, there will be an expectation of higher transparency when it comes to what you're doing with the software development. And let's hope that Flex has that in the plan. Because right now, when we come with, hey, we're changing to subscription service, you really do have to sell the user on what the benefit of if of going to that$200 platform is.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and even individuals let's say have the money to spend. We've seen this model in other industries be laughed at. Uh, let's look at BMW selling subscription services and Mercedes selling the heated seats. Yeah. The heated seats or in the electric vehicles, uh, the range extender. It's the bigger battery, but you could have to pay more money for the range extension. And those are premium vehicles at premium prices that people are purchasing and would not pay the extra premium just for a subscription to get heated seats. So I'm I'd be curious to see how it plays out. But also, Flex is no stranger to, let's say, a more uh not say controversial, but non-traditional path to releases or models in the ham community. We look at the Aurora release and how they were were scheduling those distribution of radios. They had sort of a tiered system for how much you pay is when you get your radio uh based on your pre-release deposit. Uh that wasn't interesting at the time, and and now they're doing subscriptions. And I think there's a place for flex in the ham radio world. I'm curious to see how this works out for them, though, and what the pushback is.
SPEAKER_00:You know, that I had forgotten about that. We we all had conversation about the the way that they uh released their their radios based on on your payment or or deposit. That that was an interesting business model we all discussed. I think we had that conversation at Dayton when we were walking through their um their demonstration there. That was that was that was interesting. Now I'll tell you, I didn't care for that presentation. I'm I'm I'm more open to a subscription fee than than being put further down the line because of how I paid or or chose to uh purchase my radio.
SPEAKER_02:And and we did ignore when we talked about hardware. This is, you know, they do have the Aurora and some other more cutting-edge hardware that they were developing and spending RD on and coming out with as well. So we we should give them some fair credit there that that is something that's they're pushing forward, I guess, the market a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so a couple other things I think that are are kind of worth mentioning here, and and and as I've monitored the flex community's sort of feedback on this, it's been sort of mixed, right? Uh and and I think that Flex is taking a fairly reasonable approach to the subscription. So I'm gonna say that I'm not totally against it. When I first saw uh that they were going subscription, uh, that word subscription has connotations for me that don't feel consumer friendly all the time. So I really had to understand by reading what they were saying uh whether or not I felt okay about it. And the answer is ultimately after reading this, and I again I encourage you to go read uh exciting news, a smarter SDR licensing model over in the Flex Community Forum, because it is really, really uh well thought, it tells you what you need to know. Uh, and they are answering questions. They are trying to be as transparent as possible. But the answer is I I think this is a pretty fair model, and I'll tell you why I think that is true. If I decide right now, if I still had my Flex 6400 ATU, right, if I decided to go ahead and pay that first year subscription for uh$199, I'm not gonna be an early adopter, but I'm just gonna pay the base subscription model. Anything that gets released, and I'm hoping that they have a couple of cool things lined up for the first year, right? Because that would make me feel good as a first year subscriber to this new model, right? Would be mine even after my my subscription ended. And I do like that approach to it. So everything that gets released for the 12 months after your subscription, they're saying you will be entitled to perpetually afterwards. So for me, that feels like a pretty diplomatic approach to subscription. Uh, it is not going to say, oh, no, at the end of your$199 12-month subscription, you go back, you go back to the base model, right? You've essentially bought all the features that were released during that 12-month subscription. So for me, that is the big saving grace here. And I think that's why I'm not feeling so terrible about this, this, this flex radio subscription model. And I do think that that is the one thing here uh that really does feel uh consumer first from this perspective that I have on it, is I can perhaps wait that first year out and see what other folks get out of it. And then I can subscribe in the second year and get all the advantages because they retroactively add the features that you missed in the first year according to their document that they've provided. They're going to give you access to all the things you missed in that first year if you subscribe in the second, plus all of the second year, right? So I can wait a year, see how things look, and then go ahead and subscribe if I think that they're doing a good job. So that would be my uh sort of calculated approach to this. I wouldn't be an early uh adopter of Flex's subscription model because right now I don't think that they have a track record yet for uh showing us that they can develop. Um, they are have been traditionally rather slow to release major uh versions, and they have claimed that it is, of course, finite resources. And so by adding the subscription model, we're gonna hopefully free up some of those resource problems and get some uh attention on the on the on the software. Now, one other thing to think about here, the flex 6000 series, of course, has essentially been outmoded by the 8000 series and of course now the Aurora. Uh, and if you are still on that old Flex uh uh platform, and we talked hardware early in this conversation, uh it it remains to be seen whether or not you're going to see any benefits from the new features that they introduce. And I will be very curious uh if some of the new noise reduction stuff that people have been asking for for years or more at this point is going to be backwards compatible. If I were flex and I could make it work on the processor that's in the 6400, I certainly would I would certainly be uh uh providing that to my my customers. I think that there's only advantage because we know that the hardware is no longer where folks are making money, right? In this business, it's the software. And and as a recurring revenue model is concerned, uh, that is exactly where I think they're they're gonna be banking on making it.
SPEAKER_02:Did they mention that if you buy, so I'm ponying up the full dollar amount for an Aurora on a pre pre-order, right? Let's say I'm on the top tier in the reservation list. Do I get a year of the subscription included or two years of the subscription included? Because I feel like, you know, I I should with my new radio purchase. And that's usually how they entice you. Here's all the features, but I guess if they're not going to take features away, like you said, then maybe maybe not. But I'm curious if that's gonna be part of it.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. It's it's a great question. And actually it's one that's been asked in the uh Flex Radio Enthusiasts uh conversation there. I haven't seen the answer yet, so I'll be curious to know what they're going to do. I think that a uh a baseline type of thing, and and this is my this is how I would like to see it done, and I think exactly what you're describing here as well, is if you buy a brand new radio, it would be nice to see that you're entitled for a year uh to the the radio updates, uh, and then you go from there, right? You've just dropped uh for the Aurora close to eight, seven, seven thousand dollars, I think, or eight thousand dollars and so yeah, it would be nice to see that included for the first year, and then moving forward, uh, I could be expected to pay. But it that's one of those things where I think the business really needs to look at the optics of when I'm buying a premium product and the Aurora is a premium product, even the 8,000 series is a premium product. You can argue with me whether or not you believe that now that we see both of them side by side, but these are both premium radio products. I think that it would be nice to see that one-year subscription, but I don't that has not been detailed specifically uh in this particular um an early press release on the topic.
SPEAKER_02:So I I guess I'd I'd like to ask the audience, what do they think? Where are they at with the subscription model, not just for Flex, but across all the radio manufacturers? Uh is this something you'd like to see? Getting more features, getting faster RD time? Uh where are you at?
SPEAKER_01:And is this going to trickle down to our other uh, you know, radio manufacturers? Flex is a smaller player in the game right now, and they have been for a long time, but they are certainly not one that we can we can discount, right? Flex has been around a long while. There are many uh enthusiast Flex users. I thought the radio was an excellent radio. I moved it along because I changed around a little bit my system, and I'm quick to move on radios as it goes. But uh, I'd be really curious, you know, is this something that is a signal to the radio market in a in a much bigger way? Uh, is this where we're headed?
SPEAKER_00:It makes me wonder.
SPEAKER_01:You're looking, you're watching.
SPEAKER_00:It makes me wonder as well. You know, one of our our topics back several one of our earlier episodes is where artificial intelligence is going to come into amateur radio. And who knows, maybe maybe they've got some plans for adding some of the more advanced software things that we see elsewhere, not just radio related, into their platform, which would be interesting to see. I'm being super hopeful that that this money for the for the subscription-based service is giving them a pool for pool for development and a pool to to improve things and take it to the moon. Because really, with the cash flow of that, to get get a few more dollars in on a recurring basis, I'm sure they can hire a few more people, hire a few more specialists, I would hope, and and bring some new stuff on board. So I'm I'm staying hopeful about it. I I didn't we all know we talked about the flex. I I'm like, what am I what would I ever do with a flex, uh an SDR HF rig that I gotta control through my screen? And I ended up I ended up liking it for for the for the time that I got to play with it. So uh could one appear in my shack someday, potentially. And uh, would I subscribe to it? I think I would subscribe to it if I owned one. So there's there's the two cents from my side.
SPEAKER_01:Couple couple last thoughts on this, because I know if you're just hearing this for the first time, uh, you're probably wondering, and we're trying to cover everything as fairly as we can on this topic because it is one of those topics that gets people worked up. Um if you have multiple flex radios, and this is another fair question that got asked: do I get one subscription and get to upgrade all of my flex radios? Because in many cases, uh you buy one and uh, well, one is none as a ham radio operator. So if I have two or four, I've I've seen people with four flex radios, if you can believe it. Uh, do I get one subscription and then does everything get upgraded? Flex is tying a subscription to an individual piece of hardware. So that for that for me was uh one of the things that I was yeah, I was a little bummed on that front. Yep. Um done. And and the reason I say that out loud is uh, you know, subscription has advantages, of course, for the seller, right? For the business. Uh if we are going to say, okay, Jim, uh, go ahead and buy the subscription, and I'm happy to buy it in this this uh fictional case, right? And I have four flex radios, I expect to have my back scratched a little bit too. So uh I agree with James on this one. I would like to see them handle multiple radios uh to a single registered owner uh in a better way. Uh and I don't know if that means you know my baseline subscription is$299, and then each of my add-on radios is another$50 to keep it on the uh, you know, most often on the Apple subscription model. Yeah. Right, right. Because the because hitting me for$300 on each radio uh as a single user, that feels less awesome.
SPEAKER_02:So is my subscription then transferable? If I sell the radio, is that then transferable to the next owner since it's tied to the radio?
SPEAKER_01:That is a good question, and it's not covered in anything, but I think that's a good question. Somebody should be asking. Yep. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I'm buying that subscription to that device. I think it would be something they they should look at. That would be a critical thing from my side for people that you mentioned that have two and four and have multiple flex radios. There's probably a good reason. Those people dumped a ton of money on the hardware. Yeah. Give them a break and do some sort of enterprise license for for something or a family plan or or something. I think I think that's a little little short-sighted. I can see them wanting to, you know, kind of keep track of it and not have friends sharing license keys with with each other and keep that, you know, from sure. But uh I think if you've got uh you know uh an older version of NHJRD who's moved north and has four barns across his 80 acres with a flex in each barn, give the guy a break.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and and can I transfer it? Can I transfer radio? So let's use the gym example. I have a summer home, I have a vacation home on the lake. Can I can I transfer my license to my radio up north, you know, on my vacation home, and then transfer it back to my home radio? Or or no? I mean, it raises so many more questions as well in the practicality of it.
SPEAKER_01:So I think we'll we'll wind it down here because uh I do leave it, and James already posed some of the questions to you guys as the audience. What do you think of subscription? Do you think it's coming to radios other than Flex? And what do you think of Flex's approach to it right here? Because I do think there's some diplomacy here, uh, but I do think that they have some things that still need to be understood, ironed out, and uh proven to us as consumers uh so that we know that it's worth our money. But the answer really is uh going to subscription is hard for the company that is going to subscription. We just went through this transition uh at the business that I work at. It's a tough, it's a tough road. Uh, and there's a lot involved in going to subscription and making all of the things work the way that your uh consumers are going to expect. And so I think Flex has some uh tough questions still to answer. I hope that they've got a uh a team on this thing and that they've already uh have the foresight uh to uh have gotten some of those things written down. If they made the announcement and they're still trying to figure those things out, the announcement feels a little early to me. But again, uh you know, going to subscription is tough, and I think that uh we're gonna see some of this uh uh mold and change uh as we get that customer feedback. And so I'm I'm glad we had the conversation this morning, guys. I think this just gets more uh more folks on the topic thinking about it and perhaps giving feedback to Flex uh so that they can make the right decisions moving forward. But that's the f go ahead, Jim. Rory, are you are you in or out?
SPEAKER_00:I would be in. And yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'm uh I'm in on the second year and uh I'm out after that uh until they show me some another other features, right? What I'm doing is essentially I'm gonna buy the full feature package uh in the second year, uh get myself all upgraded, and then I'm gonna put it on pause again.
SPEAKER_00:Right. That would have been the part two of my my being in is is I would be in long enough to make sure that it's the value is there and the and they're delivering like I would expect them to. That would be that would be the caveat to me being in. You're out, James?
SPEAKER_02:I'm out. Out, out, out. I don't like it. I I'm gonna be a grumpy old man. I I don't like the change. Yeah. That's fair.
SPEAKER_00:You never did have a chance to work the flex, though.
SPEAKER_02:Uh I wonder, I wonder I didn't I'm not hypnotized by the magic of the flex.
SPEAKER_00:I wonder if that has to do with your decision there. It would be a tough call for me. But like I said, if the product is delivering, I would I would be open to it.
SPEAKER_02:I j I just I I don't like it. I don't I it raises too many questions. I I I I just I just don't like it. But that's my that's me.
SPEAKER_01:Post down in the post down in the comments, guys, if you're in or out on on Flex uh and subscription too. We just be curious. Uh it's a good uh it's a good topic. But thanks for sharing a cup of coffee this morning with us. Yeah. This is the Everyday Ham. Uh we'll be back with our regularly scheduled episode here in the coming week. Uh, we have dropped quite a bit of new content this month, trying some new things. We have a Poda Rove out there. If you haven't checked it out, uh I encourage you to do so. Uh, we're continuing to brainstorm uh on good ideas. So feel free to uh join us on the Discord uh or uh find us at everydayham.com uh where you can find all of our social media links. This is NHJRD saying 73s 73, guys. Bye-bye.
